And just a few days after I reviewed Lee Strobel’s apologist arguments for why suffering exists, I (coincidentally) get an email forward from my family. This is the same one I got months and months ago – which was the subject of my very first post. This one proposes a totally different explanation for suffering and evil:
This is one of the best explanations of why God allows pain and suffering that I have seen. It’s an explanation other people will understand.
A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed. As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects.
When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: “I don’t believe that God exists.”
“Why do you say that?” asked the customer. “Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn’t exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. I can’t imagine loving a God who would allow all of these things.”
The customer thought for a moment, but didn’t respond because he didn’t want to start an argument. The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and un-kept.
The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber: “You know what? Barbers do not exist.”
“How can you say that?” asked the surprised barber. “I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!”
“No!” the customer exclaimed. “Barbers don’t exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside.”
“Ah, but barbers DO exist! What happens is, people do not come to me.”
“Exactly!” affirmed the customer. “That’s the point! God, too, DOES exist! What happens, is, people don’t go to Him and do not look for Him. That’s why there’s so much pain and suffering in the world.”
If you KNOW God exists, send this to other people—
If you think God doesn’t exist, then just delete it!
In this explanation, suffering isn’t framed as a character building exercise, instead, it’s framed as something that exists because people don’t go to God to take away their suffering – in the same way the barber takes away long hair. Any amount of thought shows how ridiculous this argument is, though: Christians do suffer. Christians died after painful infections of smallpox, after battles with cancer, in car accidents, in the holocaust, etc etc etc. Heck, medical studies involving prayer show that it has no effect at all. I’m amazed at how popular this is, despite the fact that even a little thought would show how unrealistic it is. Most of google links involve people praising this bad argument. I had to get down to the 28th google link before anyone posted a decent rebuttal. Like I’ve said before: there are plenty of smart people out there, but as soon as people open their mouths about religion, they become incredibly stupid.
[…] God exists because barbers do December 3, 2007 Posted by Evil Bender in Religion. trackback Such is aproximately the argument put forward by the following chain email that Tiny Frog found: […]
Following that logic (there is long hair because people don’t go to barbers = there is evil because people don’t go to god), all the people who *did* go to their god(s) shouldn’t be suffering. Somehow I don’t think that’s the case.
Actually I think the logic holds as long as EVERYONE goes to the barber (ie. God)
If everyone really and truly did, then suffering would not exist in the person to person sense (this excludes the natural disasters sense)
I guess where the analogy breaks down is that it only takes the man to go to the barber for him to be completely fixed, but it would take EVERYONE to come to God for evil to actually cease…(since evil is like a virus…it spreads from person to person)
Hey Kate! Boy, the barbar illustration has to be one of the most rediculous ideas I, as a Christian, have heard. It sounds as if the person assumes, as do Pentecostals and Possitive Thinkers of the name-it-and-claim-it ilk that God wants everyone to be healthy, happy, and prosperous. If this were the case, it would be so. The jGJod I find described in the pages of the Bible gives people grace or the spiritual strength to remain calm during the storms of life and comforts them when sick. The age of miracles is past and the phoney tricks touted on the media circus known as “Christian television” is a disgrace. These people are ignorant of good, sound theology and display a lack of biblical knowledge. Jesus Himself said, “no one can come to Me unless the Father draw him.” Fallen man, in his lost condition, does NOT seek God. As an ethical rebel, he runs away from God. If he does “serve” or worship a god, it is usually a fictional being of his own imagination, or an idol. Suffering exist as a result of man’s initial rebellion against God. It is the nature of sinners to hurt and exploit others for the gratification of their own selfish desires. God has commanded love towards others, even our enemies and those who would seek to harm us. That’s a tall order! As kermit said, “it’s not easy being green.”
Generous
Respectful
Encouragingly
Empathetic and
Nice
but, by God’s grace and just plain human decency, it is a worthwhile goal, not a mission impossible. RLJ
folderol, thank you for pointing out that flaw in the argument, because this post didn’t touch on that fact at all.
Richard Leo Jackson says that “The age of miracles is past (sic)” yet claims to be a believer.
Where in the scriptures does it say that miracles will cease? Why would God withhold his blessings from the believers?
If miracles have ceased, it is because of the loss of faith within the community of believers, not because the “age is passed.”
God performs miracles every day, we need to be in tune with our spiritual nature to recognize them.
We are all free to believe as we choose so get over it. Stop ridiculing people who have faith and believe in a higher power such as God. Something had to create existence – period! The fact that you have a web site to spread your hatred and distain for those who choose to believe differently then you is borderline harassment – not freedom of expression.
I feel sorry for people like yourself and pray that some day you will find God Love and salvation.
The fact that you have a web site to spread your hatred and distain for those who choose to believe differently then you is borderline harassment – not freedom of expression.
I don’t see what I’m doing as spreading hatred for people who believe differently than me. Rather, I point out the ridiculousness of ideas that are ridiculous. I’d be curious if you have the same opinion of the many, many right-wing pundits in the media. For example, I would say your statement describes Ann Coulter, quite well.
if your saying that most people in the madie are right winged, well thats an easily discredited point.
Hi
I wanted to say living most of my life in pain and suffering from a bad motorcycle accident when i was young that with my experience it has edified me and opened my eyes to God. Many things i otherwise might not have seen. Being poor or on the street many times it is said , like in the story above about the barber and the man unshaven with long hair, somehow he has made bad life choices or does not beleive in God like others do that have material posessions is amazing and presumptious thinking to me. Jesus came for the poor and the sick. How can anyone judge someones life experience looking at the way he is dressed or clothed at that particular moment in his life. Maybe the devil is trying real hard to break him. Maybe all the jeering will push a Godly man over the edge. Blessed are the poor, are you only blessed when you have material things.? Every waking moment is a blessing my friends. Health is most important and the healthy need to be more compassionate to the poor and unhealthy for they may need it some day. There are many levels of suffering in the world and it is said if you are on the right path your road will not be easy. Look in the bible where most suffered. Long suffering and the like. It is a way to build you in Christ and keep you grounded. We all have our crosses to bare and lets love eachother more , praise God. Blessing to all i pray to God.
Dan
Hi,
I find this post interesting and how people react to it is just predictable to me. People who do not believe the existent of God would easily say ridiculous thing. but one must bare in mind that people around the world have different races and religion. some religions could have the same point of view but the difference would be the God itself. Christian believes in Jesus, Muslim believes in Allah etc etc. so responding to this post of yours, i do believe that sufferings make people think why it is happening around us and why God allows it to happen? just like Dan mentioned, he suffered from an accident and it opened his eyes to see God existence. tsunami makes most people repent or scared of it to happen again, death of family members make us sad and we would think that we had not done so much happiness for the beloved one. what i am trying to say here is that, sufferings actually make us realise what we have done before and God gives us the chance to use the remaining time to do something better and useful. if there is not suffering and hardship, we will we wasting our time thinking that everything will be alright, selfish towards the others or keep doing worthless stuff.and yes, if people don’t come to the barber, how can they be nicely trimmed, if people don’t come to God by praying, fully submission, true believe that everything happen is not a bad luck but to make us wiser, how can God help us? we also need to work hard for it not just to sit and pray for a fortune. it will take time for a person to realise for all this, but the more suffering you get, the more tougher you can get to handle your own problems.
fay
This is not in any way meaning that christians will not d]suffer. Read the book Jesus Freaks about christian martyrs. In history, christians may very welll have been the people to suffer most. God helps christians get through their suffering. He helps them to find joy and peace in it and take the good from it. Christians can handle suffering in this life because they know that in their eternal life there will be no more suffering or evil.
You are using common and finite words to describe something (or Some One) Who is infinite. Of course the analogy, or any analogy for that matter, will never 100% explain God’s character or motives.
Which one of us was there when this world was created? which one of us was there when light was separated from darkness?
No one can say with certainty that there is no God, but those whose lives have been changed can say with certainty that God’s existence is real.
We always gravitate towards the idea that “if i can not understand something (God) than it isn’t true.”
-If God was small enough to fit into our heads, then He would not be big enough for our sufferings-
I do know for sure that when atheists open their mouths to mock religion stupidity ensues.
If there was no bad in the world, there would be no good- we wouldnt know what good and evil was because we need to experience both sides in order to learn
Thanks, tiny frog, for your clear comment on the Barber story. Though I am a follower of Jesus, I agree with you. I do feel inclined, however, to challenge the earlier assumption of the barber; namely that if God exists, why is there suffering? Why should human suffering define the existence of God? As other comments indicate, suffering is universal – and is experienced by all, by those who believe God exists and those who don’t. Are the existence of God and the existence of suffering truly incompatible?