Oh, oh – I know the answer to that question! Unfortunately, the 2012 mania is already in swing. I happened to stumble onto this movie preview the other day (put out by the appropriately named “the disinformation company”):
Another video about the same movie here. Seems to follow the same pattern set down by “What the Bleep do we know?” – put a bunch of “expert” talking-heads on video, as if they know what they’re talking about. At least this seems to be going straight to video. But, it’s not the only one jumping on the 2012 bandwagon. The History Channel is putting out “Nostradamus 2012″ next week, too.
Of course, I’m not particularly worried. I’ve lived through my share of apocalypses. I lived through “88 reasons Jesus will return in 1988” (a best seller) and the slightly-less popular sequel: “89 reasons Jesus will return in 1989“. And, the Concerned Christian’s destruction of Denver, Colorado on October 10, 1998. I survived the Y2K timebomb. Then, only five months later, I survived the ultimate disaster: 5/5/2000. The end of the world in 2001. I lived through the House of Yahweh’s nuclear war on Sept 12, 2006. (I mean June 12, 2007 .. er, June 12, 2008.)
It would be nice if people would actually learn something when December 21, 2012 comes and goes uneventfully, but we’ve already got plenty of failed predictions through history, and plenty clustering around the year 2000. They haven’t learned yet.
Now all I have to do is find some people willing to bet that December 21, 2012 is actually going to be the apocalypse. Easy money.
You can pretty much write off anything that Graham Hancock is attached to as complete BS. He’s written a ton of pseudo-history books about advanced ancient civilizations to Atlantis.
My friend who is interested in archaeology hates him so much that whenever he finds one of his books in the ancient history section at the bookstore, he moves to to the folklore/mythology section.
That worked for a while until he had taken over so much shelf space, the store created a new archaeology section filled with his craptacular books.
You probably have enough apocalyptic culture to milk this. The time is ripe for yet another “Left Behind” something-or-other — Middle east wars, global warming, aids and disease, overpopulation, economic crisis, drugs, gangs, media-building-automatons, blah blah….
I recently discovered that two cousins of mine are what are referred to as “End -Timers” and believe that the “rapture” is set to happen in 2012. I found this out by one of those stupid emails sent around where people answer 50 questions about themselves. The final question was “what song would you like played at your funeral?” They both responded with stating that they don’t expect to ever need funerals because the rapture will happen before their natural deaths would (barring any unforseen accident wherein the lord needed them more than their earthly families… blah.. blah..)
Anyway, my question to you is what do I say to people like this who almost seem to revel in the end of the world? I mean, to see the glowing yet smug looks on the faces of these xtians as they go on about how wonderful it will be, knowing all the while that you are not a “believer.” It makes me want to slap them, really.
Then they pull out all their “facts,” such as the Mayan calendar, the Egyptians, etc. I don’t know enough about this garbage to argue with them. HELP!!
Well, I don’t know what to tell you. At best, you can talk about the innumerable failed predictions about the end of the world. I doubt that will convince them though, since they see their 2012 prediction as different than all those others. The only solution might be to challenge them on it – and watch what happens in 2012 (on Dec 21, 2012, specifically). When nothing happens, then at least they can be reminded of their 2012 claims and the challenge – and be a little more sheepish about it. If you make a bet about it, then you can use that as an excuse to bring up the failed 2012 prediction. They might evade and suggest that the end is still ‘just around the corner’ or something, and there’s not much you can say to that because they can always say that.
By the way, when you say “Egyptians”, I assume you’re talking about the secret passage in the great pyramid that’s supposed to predict human history? Do you have any of your cousins’ material? I’m partially interested because many of these sources were probably used to predict an end of the world back in the 1980s or 1990s, too. (The Great Pyramid was supposed to predict an end to the world already.) Those old predictions might still be floating around somewhere on the internet or in libraries. I’ve noticed that many famous past “psychics” have their work constantly re-interpreted to predict the end of the world within the next few years or next decade from “now” (whenever now happens to be). For example, one website from 1998 says:
In the early 1990s, I saw a book in the library about Nostradamus’ predictions. They even had the audacity to list Nostradamus’ (supposed) predictions about the 1990s in it. Of course, they all failed miserably.
And the same 1998 website about the Great Pyramid:
And here’s a link to that website: http://plim.org/MILLENNIUM%20Article.html
I will see if I can find out exactly what they meant by “Egyptians.” All they said to me was something about an Egyptian calendar, but I’ll ask them for details… if they have any. They may need to ask their pastor about it.
One of my cousins was very excited to tell me about the rapture. Apparently it’s something she really is looking forward to. (This still amazes me that these people are related.)
She quoted Matthew 24:32-35 (New International Version – UK)
“32 Now learn this lesson from the fig-tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.
33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.
34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.”
She goes on to explain that the fig tree is Israel and that after 2000 years of not having a home, Israel became a country in 1948 and that is the generation that will not pass before the rapture comes.
According to biblical theologians (because of course who would know better than them?) a generation is considered to be 50 to 70 years, putting the rapture between 1998 and 2018.
As for the Egyptians (as well as the Mayans) their prophesies only serve as confirmation that this time, the Christians have got it right. My cousin did not get into any specifics, instead prefering to stick with what she knows to be “the truth” – the rapture foretold in the bible. For the hundredth time. To her credit, however, she did not claim to know the exact day. Only the 20 year time span, of which 11 are gone.
Perhaps she’ll admit to her error on 1/1/13??
Oh, and she advised me to watch carefully which nations are supporting Israel in their current situation…
Ah. Funny, I was just talking about that verse in the recent “Daniel 8″ post:
http://tinyfrog.wordpress.com/2009/01/09/daniel-8-and-the-end-of-the-world/
I also looked around for the Egyptian calendar / 2012 connection. I found a few websites that claimed the Egyptian calendar (like the Mayan calendar) ends on 2012. I’m actually disinclined to believe that it’s true, and everything I’ve seen on the Egyptian calendar makes it seem like the Gregorian calendar (i.e. the “date” increases forever, it’s not cyclical like the mayan calendar – which “cycles” every few thousand years, like our months cycle every year).
According to biblical theologians (because of course who would know better than them?) a generation is considered to be 50 to 70 years, putting the rapture between 1998 and 2018.
When I was growing up, a “generation” was ALWAYS interpreted as 40 years. I’ve never heard 50 or 70 years. The “40 year” interpretation was used a variety of times to predict the end of the world in the past (for example, 40 years after the formation of Israel in 1948 would be 1988, hence the book “88 reasons Jesus will return in 1988″). It sounds an awful lot like moving the goalposts to me. There were a whole bunch of “end of the world” predictions using the “generation = 40 year” belief. It’s funny how fundamentalists drilled in the idea that one generation equals 40 years over and over – making it seem certain that the rapture would happen before 1988, then, when it didn’t, they suddenly find themselves much more amenable to other interpretations of “one generation”.
Here’s a related quote that I found interesting:
So, the fundamentalists can tweak the length of “one generation”, and they can use a variety of starting points, too. As you can see from [this image], the Jehovah’s Witnesses used to start their “40 years” with 1914.
Oh, and she advised me to watch carefully which nations are supporting Israel in their current situation…
Yup, fundamentalist Christians are very big on supporting Israel. They believe God will bless whoever supports Israel, which has distorted our foreign relations in the Middle East. There’s a great Max Blumenthal video about this from a few years ago. (See it here.)
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
My friend, you have understood that Christ Jesus shall return in 2018. I want to share and pray that you will visit this site for more insights and inspiration unto the things to come; http:\\theelects.org
Grace be with you.
Wow, that’s great. Thanks for being so generous with your responses. I have been enjoying a not only slightly frustrating, but entertaining nonetheless debate with this cousin of mine and these links you’ve mentioned should give me some new ammo!
She did send me one particular link which you may find interesting:
http://www.raptureready.com/index.php
I’ve just been there and holy moley… these people are for real. And serious. This website is huge. Perhaps you’ve already heard of it already, but if not, be sure to check it out.
Thanks again, and I’m loving your site every bit as much as I suspected I would!
Yeah, my old elementary school teacher (Christian school) had a bumper sticker on her car saying “In Case Of Rapture This Car Will Be Driverless.” (Apparently, other people also remember those bumper stickers.) I suppose the best-selling “Left Behind” series has also done a lot to make the rapture seem real and eminent.
For what it it’s worth, 2012 was never meant to be the end of the world or a doomsday. That’s just the sensationalist tabloid presentation. It’s nothing like the Rapture or Y2K etc. I’m not saying anything revelatory will happen , I’m just pointing out that it’s been highly misrepresented.
I’ve had the opportunity to luckily live around the world, in a many of various places. Now, I’m not by any means claiming to be wise and some biggit, I’m only 33, but of all the places, The United States has to be the up most misguided and moldable people on the face of the earth.
I’m a New Orleans Native, so I’m no foreigner or proxy of, bashing the US. Born and raised here.
Anyway, while living in Santa Catalina Island, CA back in 96, I came across this strange man at a local pirates cove named, Anton LaVey. After hanging with him for a couple days, I realized that I fully didn’t agree with his whole concept of Humanism, and Religion. Intelligent person, but somewhere within his gene pool, an error was made.
Later, I found out, because he didn’t mention a word about it to me in the full 3 weeks I was able to talk with him. He was the author of a well known book titled “The Satanic Bible” I was amazed! He did not seem to be anywhere in that direction to me, or my cousin. He seemed to be, just a “well educated” typical Atheist that liked to debate. Never did he mention Satan.
I picked up his book about a month later, read it, and again, I was amazed. Anton did not believe in God or Satan. He still was strange, because it seemed like he was just another media anchor with a hand full of followers.
His patrons as well as himself were basically Atheist with dogma. They dressed up in make believe Gothic attire, while he promoted sexual orgies and other blasphemist rituals.
All of this from his hatred of the Christian Faith. He was just being, “for the lack of a better word” an ass.
However, take away the the BS, you could rename this book to simply, “The Way Things Are…” He does seem to have a grasp on reality, well an important part of it, if he could just step down from being just another profiteering glutton, he could write some informational books.
True, none like Darwin, or Sagan… But nonetheless good.
Anywho, we were talking one day about space. He had mentioned to about the Total eclipse we were having that year “96″ he seemed to go on about it, moving through the years, giving me dates of types of eclipses we were going to have. Guess where he stopped? 2012. Something like, “…then in 2012, a Penumbral Lunar Eclipse, and I’ll stop there because our idiots believe the end of the world will be upon us…” Then he laughed.
That was when I first heard about the 2012 issue.
Being, well, in 1999 a very well trained UNIX coder. I already was aware of the Y2K issue. And for all of you who don’t know, that problem spawned from the Multics project in the 1960’s, later named unics, then Unix. The clocked calender wouldn’t continue, just flip back to 1960. No problem.
This got blown way out, people jumped on the bandwagon, and dollar signs started moving.
We now are a nation supported by fear, if not an organization, then the government. By installing fear, you gain control. Everywhere I’ve lived, there still are problems, and people believing some insane things, either political or religious, but none like the suckers we have here.
Sorry America, but don’t you think it’s time we stepped out of the dark ages, and start living good, for the sake, of being a better person, opposed to having a fear that you will burn in hell if you don’t conform…
I’m glad to see that the people here seem to have a brain that they know how to use, without having aomeone else control it for them. Props to all of you.
Take care.
TroyNThomas
Troy, sounds like you’ve had some pretty interesting experiences out there in the big bad world! I’m a resident-alien here in the US – I’m still a Canadian citizen – and I’ve also found that in general, a good portion of the US population is quite near-sighted when it comes to reality. (That’s putting it mildly, I know.) However, it must also be noted that some of the greatest and most important minds in the world are from this country. Be that as it may, I find myself living in the Rocky Mountain region, in a city in which NONE of the movie theaters would show “Religulous.” Guess they thought the public couldn’t handle it or something. Really quite sad. So much for living in a “free country,” eh? But then yesterday when I went the video store to rent it, the lady beside me in line commented on how she was wanting to see “Religulous” aswell and how it was unfortunate that the movie theaters wouldn’t show it. I laughed when she said it was for “thinking people only.” Goes to show there are bright people everywhere, and perhaps we just need to be a little louder.
So, for all that there a lot of bible-bearing-boobies here, there are those of us who see the world for what it really is. And you’re right about tiny’s blog, too. It’s just one more helpful step to get this country pointed in the right direction!!
Rocky Mountains! Beautiful. Yes, I’ve heard that theaters, come to think of it, a few of them, won’t play certain flicks because of the nature of it.
And again, you are right about our great minds… True, but I’m willing to bet any amount that these local great minds were freethinkers…
Oh, there’s not a doubt in my mind that the great minds we’re referring to are freethinkers!
However, to return sadly to the masses, at work this morning I mentioned to a woman that I had watched Religulous recently. My heart sank yet again, as my hope that she might be a fellow “thinking person” vanished into thin air. Her face soured into this pucker as though I’d just forced her to suck a lemon, gave up a loud, self-righteous “guffaw” and after several sad attempts to pronounce “Religulous”, hacking it more and more with each attempt, finally boasted that she would, “never watch a stupid movie like that.”
Ahh well. We can only try, can’t we?
Oh, and for the rest of the day, she gave me dirty looks.
It is unnerving to see thinkers claiming to be critical and objective, tinyfrog in this instance, bashing a documentary that is meant to create debate and not put forth any postulations of its own.
“2012: Science or Superstition”, as evident in its title, presents through critical commentary and the opposing viewpoints of experts from a variety of disciplines (experts = Scientists/researchers that have critacally and scientifically delved into and have presented information on a certain topic far in excess of others), the contradicting information of 2012.
Whether you’re a skeptic or believer, scientist or historian, there are some interesting facts presented.
I am just an amateur researcher that is trying to get as many facts and viewpoints as possible about 2012 and other topics of interest to forge my own opinions.
Bashing a documentary that is meant to foster a critical and intelligent debate runs completely counter to the theme of your website and only serve to prolong the nearly universal naivety so prevalent in the US.
It is unnerving to see thinkers claiming to be critical and objective, tinyfrog in this instance, bashing a documentary that is meant to create debate and not put forth any postulations of its own.
Sometimes the facts are clear. The problem with the “it’s just debate” or “all sides” argument is that sometimes there is no debate. There is simply one side attempting to raise it’s position to the level of being something worthy of debate. I would be similarly unimpressed if someone made a movie where they wanted to discuss whether the holocaust really happened (that would be an obvious ploy by holocaust deniers to raise their ideas to the level worthy of debate), whether the earth really does go around the sun, or whether astrology really does work. You know – to show “all sides” of the issue. I put this movie in the same category as “What the Bleep do we know?”. They want to create the appearance of debate, but are really skewing things towards their own side.
Flabbergasted! Debate debate… Defined irrelevant in any situation where facts are just that, facts. To call a debate would mean simply to put your defending “lag” up on a soap box where he can so ignorantly voice his fictionalism.
Who once said that, “Religion stills/steals a thinking mind?”
Facts just manifest into debate by those with brutal ideas… Who wants some spotlight?
Hope everyone is having an alright day.
I feel 2012 is another humbug story. People have learned how to make money predicting catastrophes or new beginnings that will never happen! I guess its because most of us do like to believe that there will be some major change in this world that will change the way we live!